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newb with a few questions.

Last post 09-18-2008, 4:47 AM by Favreau. 8 replies.
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  •  09-07-2008, 7:21 PM 132712

    newb with a few questions.

    Hola everyone. i recently discovered imagenFX at my local bookstore, and it has been a godsend. im trying to expand my repitiore (sp?) into digital painting. im coming from a very comicy/cartoony background, and im having some issues in shifting my thinking from one style to the other.
    as far as i can tell, the big stumble point for me is lines. in traditional comics and cartooning, you use lines to show outline and contour. but in painting, you mostly dont use lines to form your shapes. the shift from using lines to none-lined forms is hard for me to grasp. so, how do you deliniate the edge of a shape in a painting without outlining it like you would in a drawing? perticularly if that shape falls agnest another shape of similer color (best example i can think of is the brudge of the nose, how at almost any angle you show a face at the cheek will fall behind the brusge of the nose. how do you show the edge of the nose agenst the cheek while the two should be very close in color?) and secondly, when working in photoshop or painter, or any program with layers really, whens the best point in the process to remove your sketch layer and deal solely with the painting?
    hopefully i phrased those questions clearly.
  •  09-07-2008, 7:49 PM 132720 in reply to 132712

    Re: newb with a few questions.

    Light, shadow, and colour are your answers. All those things can be used to separate one form from another. There will always be variations in lighting and colouring, even across a face (there's a lot of colour variance in a face). It's important to look at real objects and see what it is that defines there shape and separates them from objects around them, and how light changes things.

    Nothing says you have to completely get rid of lines either, but you can always just paint over them. 


    http://www.madhamsterstudios.co.uk
  •  09-07-2008, 10:41 PM 132772 in reply to 132720

    Re: newb with a few questions.

    Like the hamster said....light shadow and color are all you need. As for the point at which you get rid of the linework and deal solely with the painting.....that is really the great thing about working with layers....you don't have to get rid of it....and in fact sometimes I refere back to it long after I've laid down several other layers of paint.
    Wizard's First Rule
  •  09-08-2008, 5:49 AM 132817 in reply to 132772

    Re: newb with a few questions.

    thanks for the responce guys. after thinking over your advice and asking around some more, i think i refined my problem down into a simpler, more exact phrasing.
    simply put, the thing im having problems with i've come to learn is called edge controll. that is the skill in defining edges without nessisarily using a solid line, and keeping thise edges true as you work through a painting. knowing this, i have some more precise questions; A) whats the best way to deliniate a sharp edge? B) how can you soften a an edge thats to sharp (like its pixelated) without then losing that edge into a blotchy, blurry mess? and C)  alot of tutorials advocate startng with large brushes, and sticking with brushes that are as large as you can get away with for the durration of the work. but how can you use these large brushes without messing up other areas of your painting?
    these may seem like stupidly simple questions, but im having to teach myself here. and alot of art skills that are really very simple can seem horribly complicated when reduced to a static medium like print to teach.
    thanks for your time.
  •  09-08-2008, 5:53 AM 132818 in reply to 132817

    Re: newb with a few questions.

    Well, it's very easy. You draw lines first for your edge control. Later, you fill the right colors in and make the lines disappear. Result: clearly-defined edge without lines. Yes

    Regarding your question about large brush ruining the rest of your painting, I think it's more about th method you paint. Usually, you use large brushes to define tones and shapes, like the information of light and shadow, so this is the stage where you do not worry about "messing up other parts" because every part of the painting is just as rough, which is the idea. You only need to worry about ruining the other parts when you start to define the details, and by that stage you will most likely be working with a small brush and it would be easy to control them.

    If you paint by rendering each and every little area, that's probably okay, too. But that's usually not very efficient and you could easily lose control of your overall image.

  •  09-08-2008, 6:43 AM 132822 in reply to 132818

    Re: newb with a few questions.

    Layers are very useful for keeping control of various parts of your painting. Allowing you to edit and manipulate portions without effecting the rest of the painting.
    Wizard's First Rule
  •  09-10-2008, 4:06 AM 133145 in reply to 132822

    Re: newb with a few questions.

    another, related question. and this one seems so very basic im kinda embarassed to ask it. Later on in the painting process when its time to clean up some of the sloppy edges and start refining. whats the best way to do that? all the tutorials i've found thus far leave it at "start refining the edges" and dont really tell you how. especialy when whatever it if your orking on has areas with tightly packed details (suchs as a necklace or ornate armor with lots of frou-frou) that could be easily messed up if you twitch your stylus the wrong way.
    this is helping quite a bit so far guys, thanks.
  •  09-10-2008, 8:17 AM 133168 in reply to 133145

    Re: newb with a few questions.

    another reason to use layers, you can have those items on a seperate layer and erase to the it or paint the outline etc. You pick your best way really, and you always have the undo button if your pen does twitch.
  •  09-18-2008, 4:47 AM 134982 in reply to 133168

    Re: newb with a few questions.

    If I might offer a couple thoughts...

    "Refining the edges" can be interpreted in a number of ways. As far as I understand it, edge refining is mostly applicable for artists who paint images that were not begun from a fleshed out sketch or piece of line art with all its forms defined..

    Without the use of a sketch, that way the technique is to simply paint down blobs which then get constantly sculpted and shape refined (edge-refined) to better represent the features and forms that are trying to be illustrated.

    Even when you're painting up from a sketch or piece of line art, it also really depends on how much you've predefined in that sketch and how much you're leaving to your imagination to create and fill in as you paint.

    To edge refine, it can involve the use of an eraser to remove excess paint from a form that has too much mass, or it could also mean the application of further layers of paint to embellish the visibility of a particular form, contour or outline. 

    It really depends on context.

    Images of your work at a particular stage could really help us out in terms of helping you out in understanding better.

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