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Enviroment & Props - Discussion

Last post 07-24-2008, 1:16 PM by koshime. 11 replies.
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  •  07-18-2008, 1:24 PM 120495

    Enviroment & Props - Discussion

    Feel free to discuss, ask or suggest topics for each class and curricula here

    koshime.com

  •  07-18-2008, 7:55 PM 120540 in reply to 120495

    Re: Enviroment & Props - Discussion

    I don't know if you'd want to make a single thread of just let people post away, but pictures that need scenary specific critics? or should we just keep it in the regular critic forum? I 've been having the worst of trouble with my latest background and even back at conceptart.org only a limited number of people have been able to help me, and it was rather small critics because I gess people are so focused on drawing characters.
    -Let us take over the world with largely exagerated facial expressions!-
  •  07-18-2008, 8:05 PM 120541 in reply to 120495

    Re: Enviroment & Props - Discussion

    Hey, in reference to the last example, there's HLp and HLt, what's the difference there? Is it a case of the 'lines' warping as they approach the vanishing point/to prevent things from looking funny, as it surely regardless of the height of the bulding they would converge toward the same line. Is it a kind of fisheye effect going on or given the scale, maybe the curvature of the earth? I've never worked on pic of that scale before, so this effect is completely new to me, and isn't listed in any of the books I checked. 

     

    Cheers,

    Charco.


    ---
    Come to Ireland, an eclectic mix of cynicism, apathy and sarcasm that will warm your heart like microwave radiation!

  •  07-19-2008, 12:07 AM 120567 in reply to 120541

    Re: Enviroment & Props - Discussion

    Charco > HL = Horizon Line. P = percieved. T = True. If u look at the 3PP image, try to figure out where the vanishing point is. chances are you're eye will go to the lower horizontal line. If u plot your lines towards the distance they all converge on a actual point. this is where your true vanishing point is.

    Freiheit > This is a free for all environment and props area. If there is an environment or element of an environment that needs feedback (not that - wow. that looks awesome. keep it up kind of feedback) . Then post it here. We can pick it to pieces and hopefully provide constructive feedback


    koshime.com

  •  07-21-2008, 6:09 PM 121078 in reply to 120567

    Re: Enviroment & Props - Discussion

    well, i'd like to improve my bg for this piece

     

    paintover, redlines and explanation with very small word in a slow and comprehensible manner greatly apreciated, my brain gets dead when it comes to backgrounds x_x


    -Let us take over the world with largely exagerated facial expressions!-
  •  07-21-2008, 7:31 PM 121106 in reply to 121078

    Re: Enviroment & Props - Discussion

    Hey Frei, hope you don't mind me taking a stab at this. I got the character seperate from the other thread, and thought it might help you to see how I'd go about picking a backgound.

     

     

    1 The image I started with. Seemed a little reclined for such an active pose, so I rotated it. If its a camera tilt, I'd do that afterwards and save a whole lot of parrallel angles. flat=easy. Also, it puts her eyeline in the centre of the canvas, which is meant to be a good thing. It works for me anyways :D

     

    2 This probably looks crazy, but the one thing my layout teacher always hammered home was 'BACKGROUND MUST SUPPORT THE CHARACTER. ANYTHING ELSE IS A LANDSCAPE'

    So I did like an extended gesture. flowing out from the arms to see where the general forms would go. Note at this stage perpective hasn't crossed my mind, its all about shapes. A good way to work this out is to literally scribble blacked out shapes to give you compositions. You can find some really interesting angles that way, and you intuitively know how things should be before you start tying things down to proper perspective.

     

    3 Now comes the perspective. Basically what you're doing here is making sure your doodled background fits the rules. In your current one, your vanishing point (there would be one, seeing the straight roof and sides) would be off the right hand side of the page, about two thirds of the way down. Which doesn't really fit the character.

     

    WHY IS THIS? -

    Look out a window. Look to see  where the horizon line is. About eye level, more or less... depending on where you live.

    Look up, from the same place. Where's your horizon line now? DOWN lower, back at your earlier eye level.

    Look down, and the opposite happens, the horizon is up high- because you're staring at the ground. 

    If your horizon is low in your picture, it means you're looking up, and would be more likely to see the underneath of a character. 

    If the horizon line is high, it means you're gonna see more of the top of them. 

     Your girl is pretty much face on, and the background should follow that. A character can go to whichever vanishing points they like, but only so long as its along the same horizon. That's the key to drawing rotated objects in perspective.

     So, with her front on staging, we should have a front on horizon line. Around eye level.

    Going back to what I mentioned earlier about Supporting the character. we want to have the character as the centre of attention.  One of the easiest ways to do this (although possibly cliche....I like it though) is to place the vanishing point behind the character's head, or a point of central interest. Putting it behind one of the guns would change the foreshortening on the rest of the figure, so behind the head will work fine. NB: A lot of people tend to do a lot of their backgrounds at eye level, as its what they're used to. Many directors use strong upshots to create an image of strength (almost like worshipping an idol) and downshots to show weakness. 

     So we have the horizon line and vanishing point (1, to keep it straightforward, and so as to match up with your drawing as closely as possible), and then its just a case of blocking in some shapes following the rules.

    Then the ball things, I wasn't sure if they were cameras or killbots, so I had a little fun with them. I had them shooting lasers at her to justify why she had her guns out, and also to cross behind her head as a point of focus again.

    You used the repeated forms in your own bg to create depth, just mentioning it to check it off my list. Things get less saturated, and slightly bluer the further they are away from the camera. The Blade Runner poster in yours seems to flatten the pic a lot, and should probably be shown in perspective, and tying in to the colour scheme of the rest of the picture. In moonlight, nothing looks red. Similarly, in a purple city (unless its a lightsource in itself), Deckerd wouldn't have his orange-tan complexion.

     

    Obviously very rough, this is just a guide. Look up the rules for distances between things in perspective. Mark Byrne's The Art of Layout and Storyboarding is a pretty good reference, although its geared towards backgrounds for animation more than anything else. I hope this has been helpful, and not a confusing rant about things I half understand. Unless Koshime wants to tell me how wrong I'm doing it XD


    ---
    Come to Ireland, an eclectic mix of cynicism, apathy and sarcasm that will warm your heart like microwave radiation!

  •  07-21-2008, 7:32 PM 121107 in reply to 121078

    Re: Enviroment & Props - Discussion

    Attachment: perspective.jpg
    freiheit, from a prespective point of view (no pun intended), some of your perspective lines don't quite meet at the same point. I've marked some of them in red in this pic. Also the tops of the conduits on the right (circled in green) would only be showing if that whole structure were leaning over toward us. Objects above the horizon/eyelevel show from below, objects below that level show from above. So it would be the bottom edges of them that should be visible not the tops.


    http://www.madhamsterstudios.co.uk
  •  07-21-2008, 7:35 PM 121109 in reply to 121106

    Re: Enviroment & Props - Discussion

    gah of course watching out for tangents on that knee against that building. big no no.

     

     

    .......balls


    ---
    Come to Ireland, an eclectic mix of cynicism, apathy and sarcasm that will warm your heart like microwave radiation!

  •  07-21-2008, 9:46 PM 121139 in reply to 121109

    Re: Enviroment & Props - Discussion

    I don't have the luxury of time to re-do the background from scratch, but I apreaciate the 101 crash course on backgrounds :-) thanks charco

     

    Banj: that's because you're lines arn't pointing to my vanishing point :-p which I've taken off the image to avoid getting some "hey what's that wierd red dot?" comments xD but thanks for pointing out about my conduits being in the wrong angle, it,s fixed now :)


    -Let us take over the world with largely exagerated facial expressions!-
  •  07-22-2008, 10:05 AM 121224 in reply to 121139

    Re: Enviroment & Props - Discussion

    Attachment: blah-po.jpg

    I think, its not so much stating you have sufficient time to redo the background, but you can certainly add elements of interest and restructure so that it appears the heroine is dancing crazily through a city scape.

    Here is some restructuring and change of perspective.

    Ultimately, if an image has flawed elements or perspective. even the most beautiful painting is permanently flawed as well. Especially if it has humanoid shapes included. 

    For the human eye is harshly judgmental. 

    Gluck 



    koshime.com

  •  07-22-2008, 3:16 PM 121301 in reply to 121224

    Re: Enviroment & Props - Discussion

    yeah... I accually should have done my background BEFORE my character  lol there was something though that was bothering me, it feels as though my character isn't "in" my background,..she feels kinda far away from everything, like if the whole city stoped at some point before her or something...or if she was in front of a poster that had a city on it xD

     

    and what's that thing you did to the colors? How do I do that?

     

    edit: and how can I make my windows be more like windows with out putting little people behind them? You know, when it's day time we don't see much inside houses when lights are off, the windows all look very dark...and I wasn't able to get that effect with my first try at coloring the background... hence why they ended up being not there anymore and just being denivalations on the buildings

     

    editedit:  the frustration is finally gone! I'm working on the bg and I'm starting to like it better, gonna be fixing some issues thanks to your feedbacks and then posting back the WIP. I was thinking of tackling the issue of people not really knowing the hight of the building and stuff by adding some extras lower structures  which will help me place the horizon line which we should normaly be able to see, and adding some silouettes on the buildings to better help in judging the size. I'm going to move the bots arround to bring the focus on the girl and add a "boss" bot for her to look at. What dyou think of it as a first step? I've mooved the girl to, thinking of tilting stuff a bit like kosheme suggested, but I want to wait a little before doing it 'cause I'm scared of making it look unatural.


    -Let us take over the world with largely exagerated facial expressions!-
  •  07-24-2008, 1:16 PM 121704 in reply to 121301

    Re: Enviroment & Props - Discussion

    well.

    What i'd like to tackle in the monthly long composition and enviro stuf fare some realyl basic basics.

    How to render a cube. a sphere. a triangle. Now render lots of these.

    If one can tackle lighting/darkness and cast shadow. That will lend itself strongly to ANY field.

    The rest is just doing a few practises from reference.

    ArtFu TIP  smaller windows, larger structures. BiggER windows, small looking structures:


    koshime.com

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