A discussion arose in this thread: http://community.imaginefx.com/forums/1/247009/ShowThread.aspx regarding digital artists lack of knowledge and understanding of the fundamentals of art creation. I thought it was an interesting debate, but it was best moved from the thread it was in. So here it is.
These were the main comments posted (hopefully I didn't miss anything major, but you can refer to the thread in the link above):
Pierangelo Boog:
The positiv things in your art are the details, the effects of highlights, and over all the very good color palet.
But the knowledge of anatomie is (like by many digital artists) not the best. Deformation things covers it just
like a spare parts depot... and this is one of the characteristical language of game arts... For example:
If you have problem to draw a leg, you are using a elefant leg ore rhino leg... and this looks cool (unfortunately
near all they use a mix of human anatomy and animal anatomie)...
Geir:
Well -I don't see anything wrong with this Pier. You have examples of the same thing in classical art. Like the centaurs. Yes, anatomy is very important. But to use animal anatomy together with human, does not always mean the artist don't know how to draw the human part of what he has used animal part on. I might just be play with artistic fantasy.
trevor:
pierianelo
sorry you dont like my anatomy and yes i know there can always be improvement but the choice to do the elephant like leg was a design choice
the idea of giants as simply large humans is a bit boring to me so i wanted to do something a little different as they are magic creatures
but saying this is a problem with "digital artists" is a bit insulting. it also assumes that i only do digital art or that people who do any digi work dont know anatomy
the simple truth is some people just dont know anatomy and the media they use is irrelevant ( and i dont only do digi)
trust me i have no problems with drawing human legs or feet. im pretty sure if i wasnt able to do them or if my anatomy was realy that crappy i wouldnt be a senior concept artist or have as much freelance work as i do :)
Pierangelo Boog:
Well, I was little to hard with you, Im sorry. And yes, Geir, Mynotaurus and Company has a great tradition, and I like it too, and
once day I would paint the Minotaur theme why itis faszinating. I dont have mean with my anatomy siscus just Trevor. In a other way
I think I have right: The digital art, the posibilitis of it in this magic "pandoras box" suggest that you can doing every effects that the
old masters have doing in weeks. Often I see in digital works a great potential of effects, wonderful atmopshäre, superbe highlights,
but most they can not draw in the same manner the feed of the figure ore the ear, ore the knie. Just the color effects is in the foreground
and retouches/cover this mistakes. And this, I find, makes the quality of most of the digi works stopping by 90%. Most time I think; well,
extremly good in color and handling with light and shadows, painted with haertbloood, but this hand ore this feed they have not paint in the
same quality. It is a little sad tosee when a posible masterpiece stopps by 90% by a bad painted feed (ore ear)
But anyway, Trevor, you are one of the better digi artists, let my say this.
Geir:
I do agree with you that there are sadly many examples of bad artists that cover up their mistakes by hiding things they can't draw. And with digi art that is much easier course of the history and snapshot and such. Which is something you don't have in trad art. There, if it's painted, it's painted. And you have to do it all over again if it's bad. BUT that's a long way from saying that makes most digi artists work stops at 90%. The fact of the matter is that goes for trad artists as well. There are so many thousands of artists and wannabe artists out there, be it both digi and trad, and only a few have the talent to become a masters. But if you dig a bit into the world of digital art, my assertion is that many of the true masters of art is amongst the digital art (I'm here talking about figurative art), and many of these are to be found in the game and movie industry. Yes, computers makes it easy to fix problems and you have things like textures and custom made brushes which even can be a picture of a bird if you need it to. But remember that artists have always used the latest of technology available for them. Even Caravaggio used lenses to produce an reflection of a scene onto the canvas. Lens, which in those days were hi-tech. The thing is, that it takes a true master to use all these technologies the right way. What I find sadest with the digital medium, is that so many seem to think that the medium itself will do the work for them. That they don't have to ba that good craftsmen, be course you can use things like a bird brush instead of actually drawing the bird. They don't seem to understand that they need to understand the inner workings of the bird. Why does the wings move? How is the skeleton made? How is the muscles build and wrapped around the skeleton. Why can the wing make a bird fly in thin air? Only then they can really see and understand how a birds wing can move. And why it can fly. The tools does not do the job for an artist, the artist must do it him/her self. Amazingly many who say they know this, but at the same tiome can ask questions like; " Why does my picture not like like your's. I'm using charcoal (or your custom brushes) just like you?"
em...:
I'm sure there were plenty of crappy artists making a living in the days of the old masters too, but their names and works have been lost in time.
Part of the problem (which can't be solved) is that a lot of people are impressed by whizz bang and flashy effects, so something that is slick and full of detail will be perceived by many as being well done, even if it's completely lacking in basic understanding of anatomy, construction, lighting etc.
It really takes someone with knowledge of these things to be able to tell if someone else does too, and the fact is that most people (especially the non-artist buying public) don't have that knowledge - if it's better than they could do, they think it's good.
(none of this criticism has anything to do with the works in this thread, which do show a solid grasp of the fundamentals in my opinion).
fates_fickle_finger:
Pierangelo Boog: I have to say I find your comments insulting, shortsighted and out of place, and they wernt even directed at me. these are images of fantasy creatures... "fantasy" being of the imagination, they could have insect legs and it wouldnt be a bad thing, its fantasy... not reality. this guy clearly has considerable skill, and a clear talent.. if you have an axe to grind about digital artists go and find a space on one of the many traditional only forums and grind it there. Most of us here use traditional media as a starting point for our work, or paint and sculpt as well, if you cant draw on paper you wont be able to draw with a computer either, please take your unhelpful comments elsewhere.
i think there is some merit to those comments, however i think that's true whether its traditional or not, at the end of the day it comes down to the artist.The thing with a traditional artist i find (and correct me if i'm wrong) is that they usually have training. Digital is accessible to most now, with or without training, whereas traditional is much more daunting to just jump into for those with no knowledge.
i'm guilty on many counts of lack of knowledge/skill/ability. It's all about learning isn't it? i have no art training, and i know i should if i want to improve, money, time and other obstacles put a block on this, however, i have many books (struggle to actually read them) but my learning ground is here, and seeing other artists work, and learning from crits and advice here.
I think you have a valid point there Kaz. Its not the fact that people learning have problems drawing anatomy, we all do at times, its the fact that it was digital artists that were being singled out as somehow a special case...
lets face it we are all learning and will never stop, but that dosent mean digital artists lack artistic skills or knowledge.
"what do you mean...I stopped thinking, therefore I disapeared?"
Everything sensible seems to be said already, so I'll just give you a few tips from Meowza Katz that I read today, and that could be said to have a bearing on the topic:
i think there is some merit to those comments, however i think that's true whether its traditional or not, at the end of the day it comes down to the artist.The thing with a traditional artist i find (and correct me if i'm wrong) is that they usually have training. Digital is accessible to most now, with or without training, whereas traditional is much more daunting to just jump into for those with no knowledge.
Valid for the most. I think many digital artists also have training. It might though be that trad has more. But there are heaps of trad without official training. Me being one of them. I'm for the most autodidact.
Daunting as it might be, the only difference between digi and trad art is that trad usually is more of a messy sort of art. It might take some longer time seeing as you have things like drying periods (which is very long in oils). But I would say the knowledge you have to obtain is the same. There are mediums to learn, as there are different programs to learn. Both take time. The drawing, -color, -shape, -perspective etc knowledge you have to obtain are exactly the same in both sorts of art. And it's the latter ones that really take time.
Wuhaaa... I'm not included on the discussion problem. Am I happy or not?
In fact, I've been learning all human anatomy from Andrew Loomis. Verrrrry very old stuff but very very helpful!
And ever seen or encountered 'Drawing Animals Anatomy' by (uff, I forgot the author)? It's just simple to learn in many ways.
Also you can see Animal Anatomy from Marshall Vandruff at Imagine FX issue 45 - 46 which in case there will be many of them out there, but I only have these two magazine to point it out.
--- So... I've also got some insulting (really insulting) comments while drawing Manga aeons ago. That's why if people said Manga was easy, then go ahead draw with twisted anatomy, more like distortion camera angle and such extreme perspective of anatomy with the same character. You wouldn't even find any easy way to do that if you're not able to draw a regular anatomy study. See my sketch/wip thread.
No, I wasn't promote my stuff here, just make a sense with what's going on in this thread.
Digital is just another art medium, nothing more, nothing less. Some are great with paint and some are great with pixels, end of.
The Other Self Righteous Brother
Pierangelo Boog:
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